I wish Calvinist scholars who teach Calvinism would just include their admission that they are speaking anthropomorphically about God as they try to describe their view of election. For “a pre-temporal decision” is not possible for the Calvinist’s view of God, for the word “decision” is typically understood as requiring sequential thinking and knowing something as first undecided and then knowing it as decided. For the Calvinist everything is eternally set in God’s mind, so no real decision is actually made.
Calvinist are not going to include an exertion made by Wagner that he asserts without any prove that they include in their admission that they are speaking anthropomorphically concerning election. This is Brian’s view only of Ephesians 1:4 and 2 Timothy 1:9 which Dr. Sean Cole has already addressed and dismissed as faulty and wrong on another blog of my wordpress page.
Brian says no one was chosen or elected in Christ to salvation from all eternity because no one existed. He just cannot grasp that it it in Christ and in the mind of God from all eternity.
I know Brian believes Revelations 13:8 where it says “the Lamb of God” was slain from the foundation of the world” On the basis of what Brian’s believes concerning the elect not existing before the foundation of the world therefore election in Christ is not possible for that reason I declare the Lamb of God was not slain from the foundation of the world. Now Now Brian, It says so in Revelations 13:8. But Jesus was still spirit and only the foundation of the world was created, the incarnation had not happened, there was no cross, no Judas, no Herod, No Jews, No Romans, so I declare this is a false verse in the Bible that “the Lamb of God was slain from the Foundation of the world, nothing existed for this to happen according to Brian Wagner. Oh well, this seems to be the way we can understand the Bible according Mr Wagner.
I wish they also would explain how individuals can actually be chosen before their lives have actually started. Is it like choosing names in a hat without any information about that individual, or wouldn’t it actually include God knowing every aspect of that individual’s full life forever into the future including all of God’s interactions with it? What kind of choice is that, and what difference does it make? Storms inconsistently says – “chosen by God to believe in Christ” and “chose the specific individuals who would comprise the church” when actually the individuals supposedly “chosen” are already known to believe in Christ and are already comprising the church forever in God’s mind.
I wish Brian would explain how “the lamb of God was slain from the foundation of the world while Jesus was still spirit, only the foundation of the world was created, no incarnation had taken place, no Judas, no herod, no Romans, no cross etc Hmmmmm It really makes all he just said in the paragraph above look forced and just asserting things without any real prove that they cannot be true. The elect of God were Chosen or elected in Christ in the mind of God from all eternity or the lamb of God was not slain from the foundation of the world and we know he was not but the scripture says he was.
Finally, I wish they also would at least mention and provide reasonable solutions for passages that counter their view. It is obvious in Jesus words about election in some texts that God’s calling is first mentioned and illustrated before being joined to God’s elect (Matt 22). And Jesus stated this in the present tense (many are called but few are chosen) instead of using the past tense (many are called but few have been chosen). And Paul’s quotation from Hosea should also be explained in contrast with the promise that nothing separates the elect from God’s love. “I will call them My people, who were not My people, And her beloved, who was not beloved.” If the elect existed and were loved in God’s mind before creation, how could they be identified as “not My people” or “not beloved” at all.
This here really surprises me the most. One thing Brian does not do is answer in a manner that is logically and can be taken seriously passages that counter his view if he even takes the time to answer them at all. Most of the time he does not. Brian likes to rely on his logic and intellect a little to much which I have told him is his greatest weakness. I have told Brian and he knows it the phrase that “many are called and few are chosen” is speaking to the first century Christians and goes along with the parable of the wedding feast. The calling them ‘my people who were not my people’ is something that is just being executed is time Brain. Real easy to understand sir, it is not something being talked about from eternity, they are not saved from eternity only elected to salvation from eternity.